Makenzie May and Danny Mumm
Ajax by Sophocles
Entry 1 pg. 1-3
Back in the times of ancient Greece the gods played a prominent role in their lives as well as their literature. In the greek play Ajax, Odysseus is visited by the goddess of wisdom Athena.The gods always interfering with the fate of the humans, they are always watching. Athena “watched thee hunting in his trail, and scanning his fresh prints, to learn is now he be within or forth. Skilled in the chase thou seamiest, as a keen-nosed Spartan hound” (1). Athena is about to manipulate Odysseus. The foreshadowing Sophocles used without saying anything everyone knew that something bad was about to happen for either Odysseus or for Ajax. Also Athena sees both sides. Is she trying to help Odysseus? Or is she just doing this to have fun? Or is it just for her to get what she wants done and Odysseus is just a pawn? Athena tells Ajax “The men are dead, if rightly I take thy meaning” (3). Athena is trying to set him up! If you were a goddess would you mess around in peoples lives? If so what would you do? I think that the interference Athena could cause is going to play a huge role in the interactions between Odysseus and Ajax. Do you agree? She is a god messing around with people something is bound to go terribly wrong. Greek plays always end so badly, I do not know if I want to see how this will end out. This is some spy stuff.
I agree with you that Athena is being manipulative, and I think that she can do that because she is the Goddess of Wisdom along with military strength. This, in my opinion, gives her the advantage on many things that goes with manipulation. I think that she is trying to trick Odysseus because I already thought that she was being manipulative. If I was a goddess I wouldn’t mess with people’s lives because I would be trying to make them better. I do agree with you that Athena’s interference will cause problems between Odysseus and Ajax over the issue of control. Regarding Ajax’s son and wife, from what we have read so far, do you think that his wife, Tecmessa, plays a big role in his life or is she just kind of the bearer of his son? The chorus sings “For a constant love has valiant Ajax borne thee, his spear won prisoner bride.” (4) This shows that he just kind of won her in a battle or something and it wasn’t really true love. I think that he isn’t necessarily the most important thing in his life, but she has a little bit of meaning to him. I think that he really loves and cares for his son. Why was Ajax is acting the way he is when he comes back to Tecmessa and the leader? Are you liking the story so far? How do you feel about it? I like it, but at times I feel like it can get hard to understand some of the language?
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, the chorus points out that Ajax has a "constant love" for her, even if he did get her from a battle.
DeleteMakenzie May entry number 2
ReplyDeleteThey think very highly of Ajax but basically think he's semi mental now. The story is ok. I however, am not a big fan of plays. I like things that flow along without being told who said what before it was said, or being told how to feel. I feel unattached. The language is a bit odd to me as well. Just old english transferred from an ancient language. Why does Ajax start to chant? He goes as far to chant to the gods saying, “Oh Zeus, of my father the sire, might I kill that hateful and crafty dissembler, yeah, and those two brother kings, partners in pride, then last myself to perish” (7) Sophocles shows off the greek culture in this chant. Asking for the gods to partake in the individual life of the people. This is also very much foreshadowing. This is a tragedy, it must end terribly and everyone must die so that the audiences emotions are cleansed and the lesson is learned. What do you think the main lesson is that we can take from the play Ajax so far? Do you think this will end badly also? If so how do you predict it will end? Odysseus dying, Ajax dying or that they both die? Do you like this plot so far or is they layout just making it hard to read? Who do you like more Odysseus or Ajax? Why do you like that person more?
There are many translations of these plays--it looks like you found an older translation, hence the "thee/thou" language. Also, a clue...this is set during the Trojan war, right? So we know Odysseus survives?
DeleteOk, first of all I just want to say that after reading the whole play I think that it makes a lot more sense when I can go back and see the entire plot. I think that Ajax had the right to be mad at Odysseus because I was getting what Ajax deserved- Achilles armor. He deserved this because he was next in line. I think he was a bit dramatic to want to try and kill Odysseus and that is why Athena stepped in. She wanted him to kill some animals instead. Why do you think that she did that? Was she trying to protect Odysseus? I think that he felt extremely guilty because he was just caught up in his emotions. He was upset that he didn’t get Achilles armor and that was obvious. Also, to answer your question, I think that he started to chant because his emotions were getting the best of him maybe. Then again, he might just be going crazy because there was “billowy paths of foam” (7) coming from his mouths as he chanted. He was envious of Odysseus for a reason. I think that the main lesson that the readers can take from Ajax so far is that although things happen that we don’t expect, we should take time to think about it and not get crazy about something at first. For example, when he went on a killing spree on the animals and herds. I don’t have a favorite between Odysseus and Ajax because I don’t really care for the play. But I do think that Ajax will carry through with his plan to attempt suicide. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteentry 3 pg 13 - 15
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Athena is only using Odysseus as a simple pawn in her game. Totally disposable, but only at her own time. She was not ready to have him killed off yet. So she had to protect her player in order to get the out come she wants without interfering with human life to much. Also I totally agree with you on Ajax plan, just not entirely sure how he plans to carry it out. Somehow Ajax thinks that he is “the first, oh Zeus, to aid me as is right” (13). The greeks really believed the gods acted in the lives of people that much! Do you think that Ajax thinks Zeus will actually help him? Or is this just stuff he says even though it is a common occurrence? Some parts of the Chorus speak about Ajax saying, “Where! Where! Where not have my footprints been? And still no place reveals the secret of my search” (14). He is in a mad search, blinded by rage and gods alike, completely unsatisfied by anything. Sophocles is saying the bad effects the gods have on people. This semi insanity and slipping into a mad search because the gods hid one person. Why is he looking so hard? Is Ajax mad? I believe that Sophocles is really using catharsis to cleanse up the emotions of the audience threw the character of Ajax. Do you agree with me or what is your opinion on him using catharsis?
I really like your analogy about Athena using Ajax as a piece in her game of chess. I think that it is accurate because in a sense, she is controlling him by convincing him to do what after he wants to kill Odysseus. I don’t think that Ajax actually thinks that Zeus will help him; he just wants to kind of get it all out and get a chance to yell at the gods for the unfairness that has occurred. When Ajax says “’Tis a foolish hope” (10), he is talking about how the gods are not helpful to him. It is useless to have hope in something that is not even ever going to help him, so he is annoyed I would say. Ajax is going mad because he just knows it is not fair that he did not receive the armor from Achilles and Odysseus did. In the end of the play it is talked about how he killed himself with a sword and that Tecmessa found him. What do you think was going through her mind at that point? I think that she might have seen it coming and probably even expected it. How do you think Ajax’s son, Eurysaces, felt after he was given the shield? What kind of special meaning do you think it possesses for the boy?
ReplyDeleteEntry 4 pg 18 and 19
ReplyDeleteI fell as if she was very overwhelmed and full of grief. Also I fell as though the shield had a very special meaning to him. It was his fathers shield and his father was a great champion even though he died. The shield will probably make him want to be a champion as well. The audience and chorus is asked, “you say you brought him hither? Took him to be a champion of the Greeks? Did he not sail as his own master, freely?” (18). Sophocles was attempting to show the humor in the idea of something else controlling humans. He is showing that yes gods can have super natural powers and all, but humans still have it in them to choose what they do. That means that most importantly, humans choose their fate. Do you think that humans choose their own fate or that our one true God plays a part in that or that there are in fact supernatural powers acting on the lives of individual people? Why do you think this way about how humans end up? Sophocles also uses irony as “would he had vanished away from the earth, rapt to the skies, or sunk to devouring Hades. He who first revealed to the Greeks.” (19). The irony that the things he brought over is the same things that killed him. Do you find this ironic? What major lessons have you learned or taken out of this play so far?
I think that your idea about what Ajax’s son thinks about the shield is spot on. I think that he gave it to him to inspire him to be better than what he himself was. Also, yes I think she was overwhelmed but she did see it coming, as he had been acting crazy and really strange, especially when he was yelling at Zeus and all that stuff. I think that both God and humans control their fate. I say that because it is overall up to God what happens to a person, but who is to say that a person had one fate, changed it, and that was okay with God? I think that Ajax did this, as he could have had so much to live up to but instead decided to kill himself. I do not really find any irony in the play, but I do think that there were certain times that there could have been irony inserted into the play by Sophocles. At the very end of the play, the Chorus chants, “Unto him who has seen may manifold knowledge / Come; but before he sees, no man may divine what destiny awaits him.” (22) Sophocles is saying that man cannot control his own destiny and that it is all up to God. Overall, the play was good but I still would not say that I would read it again because it took a while for me to understand the plot. The language was very confusing.
DeleteGood job wrestling with the issues of guilt, emotion, justice, and the gods' involvement in this play. Sorry you were working with an older translation. One note worth remembering from The Odyssey is that Odysseus is pretty much Athena's favorite human, so she's usually going to be on his side. Also, in the context of the gods' "manipulation," do they seem to manipulate humans to do wrong or to do right in this play? Good observations at the end about the tensions between human and divine control. (Remember please to proofread your entries, too. Thanks!)
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